2CPU.com » News » December 2001 » AMD says 'No' to dual Athlon XP's?

Just got a heads-up from Anthony (Scriion in the forums), who wanted to point me to this thread in Storage Review's forums. Apparently one of their users gave a pair of Athlon XP's a try in his shiny new Asus A266M-D, based on the new MPX chipset:

My new Asus A266M-D won't work in dual mode with AMD-XP's - at boot it reports:

"AMD XP CPU detected - forcing single CPU mode"

According to Asus this is a requirement being placed on manufacturers of 760MPX boards by AMD. Only MP CPU's will be allowed to run in MP mode unless someone can figure out how to trick the CPU model detection?

I guess they need to force people into the high profit MP chips!

I guess they do at that. So, does anyone want to lay any bets on what this might mean (if anything) for the future? Is AMD going to start playing "dirty" like Intel as they become bigger? Do corporate types automatically get the itch to squeeze their user base as that base grows?

Or is this just good business sense? After all, if a few enthusiasts buy Athlon XP's instead of MP's, that doesn't matter much, does it? But what if all your corporate customers start buying the cheaper XP's and giving your cash-cow MP's the cold shoulder...?

Edit: Speaking of 760MPX-based boards, Aaron just let me know that Tyan has the page up for their TigerMPX.

Wowzers Frustrated Guru Posts: 74 Joined: 2001-05-18

#12860 Posted on: 12/14/2001 11:26 AM Hmmmm... I just read through the manual on Tyan's site for the Tiger MPX. A remarkably short read. No o/c ing that board. It also says right in the text that XP's will only run in single processor mode. *sigh* Here is the link to the manual. :mad: Now if only someone can figure out the pencil trick for turning an XP into a MP! Is it the Red wire or the Yellow?? Your case-mod will self destruct in 5 seconds!

peteb solittletimesomuchtodo Posts: 331 Joined: 2001-12-06

#12861 Posted on: 12/14/2001 11:33 AM That is dissapointing.... Lian-Li PC-76|Tyan S2466N|2xXP1700|2GB Reg ECC|Enermax651/301 Dual PSU|5x36ES Raid5 ICP Vortex GDT8623RZ|3Ware 7500-8|4xWD1000JB Raid5, 2xMaxtor80GB Raid0|SB Audigy|WinXPSP1|More PCs

peteb solittletimesomuchtodo Posts: 331 Joined: 2001-12-06

#12862 Posted on: 12/14/2001 11:49 AM What does AMD do to an MP chip that fails SMP validation? Does it trash the cpu, or 'do' something to it and throw it in the XP bucket? If they 'do' something to the cpu, presumeably then we can 'undo' it to make it an MP again. Of course alternatively someone could tweak the bios.... Now, we wouldn't want to 'undo' a failed SMP chip.... Ahh nuts, it looks like the cheque book is coming out again. Saying that MP1800 is the same price as XP1900 in tokyo right now so it isn't all bad.... Lian-Li PC-76|Tyan S2466N|2xXP1700|2GB Reg ECC|Enermax651/301 Dual PSU|5x36ES Raid5 ICP Vortex GDT8623RZ|3Ware 7500-8|4xWD1000JB Raid5, 2xMaxtor80GB Raid0|SB Audigy|WinXPSP1|More PCs

Brad 30105 in 3dmark 03 Posts: 3646 Joined: 2000-12-06

#12863 Posted on: 12/14/2001 12:27 PM I don't care too much about the mp vs xp thing, I'd probably get mp's anyway because they are unlocked. the only thing I care about is that someone has an asus a7m266-d and it isn't me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Clevo D870P Notebook, P4 3.4ghz NW, 1gb DDR400, Intel 865PE, ATI 9700 Pro 256mb, 60gb, 80gb, DVDRW, 17" LCD, TV Tuner, 1 hour battery life Athlon 64 3700 Sandy @ 9x315 with XP-120, Asus A8N32-SLI, 2x 512mb PC3200 @ 315mhz 2.5/3/4/8, 2x 7800GTX @ 490/1325, 1x 74gb Raptor, 3x 160gb SATA, Audigy 2 ZS, Silverstone TJ-03, Zippy 700w. P4 3.46 Gallatin EE at 12x300, Supermicro PDSGE, 2gb DDR2 @ 600, 6x 250gb, 6x 200gb, Promise SX6000, Adaptec 2610SA, Acbel 550w 7800GTX 512mb's on their way

Osmosis SMP Newbie Posts: 17 Joined: 2001-08-28

#12864 Posted on: 12/14/2001 12:27 PM nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!! I wait over a year just to get shorn extra for buying Athlon MP processors? Damn it oh well... I suppose the extra money will help AMD and make future products and support better for everyone. Right? well... -Osmosis

metalac SMP Newbie Posts: 50 Joined: 2001-09-09

#12865 Posted on: 12/14/2001 12:31 PM There has to be something illegal in what AMD is doing. Think about it you go to a car dealer and he's selling a Ford for 10,000$, but he also has Ford-Special for 30,000$. Now before you decide what to buy he tells you that you're not allowed to drive Ford on the rain, so you must buy Ford-Special if you do that. Now what AMD has done now is pretty much told you the same thing like that dealer, just they are adding that if police sees you driving Ford on rain they'll shoot your tires out so you can't drive it anymore. Sorry for the cheezy metaphore, but I hope it helps to explain my point. So is there any people in legal business on these forums to tell if this is really indeed illegal or what? I would guess for something you pay almost twice as much you get some extra feautures like in Xeons, instead of a different name only. BTW are Durons compatible with these new boards??

Brad 30105 in 3dmark 03 Posts: 3646 Joined: 2000-12-06

#12866 Posted on: 12/14/2001 12:36 PM then you'd buy a chevy see my point? don't like it, go tuallie or xeon Clevo D870P Notebook, P4 3.4ghz NW, 1gb DDR400, Intel 865PE, ATI 9700 Pro 256mb, 60gb, 80gb, DVDRW, 17" LCD, TV Tuner, 1 hour battery life Athlon 64 3700 Sandy @ 9x315 with XP-120, Asus A8N32-SLI, 2x 512mb PC3200 @ 315mhz 2.5/3/4/8, 2x 7800GTX @ 490/1325, 1x 74gb Raptor, 3x 160gb SATA, Audigy 2 ZS, Silverstone TJ-03, Zippy 700w. P4 3.46 Gallatin EE at 12x300, Supermicro PDSGE, 2gb DDR2 @ 600, 6x 250gb, 6x 200gb, Promise SX6000, Adaptec 2610SA, Acbel 550w 7800GTX 512mb's on their way

mattsteg Senior Member Posts: 990 Joined: 2000-05-07

#12867 Posted on: 12/14/2001 12:45 PM Like it or not, this is really what AMD needed to do and probably should have done from the beginning. As long as MP prices stay relatively low, I don't mind this. I was planning on getting MPs sometime soon anyway, so my plans really don't change. On a side note: $10k vs $30k? Your percentages are more than a little off there. Hello.

UKWolf SMP Wannabie Posts: 430 Joined: 2001-06-28

#12868 Posted on: 12/14/2001 01:17 PM Disapointing - but no real suprise This can only be a bios tweak? I wonder how long before this is rewritten by someone? As pointed out before, I also can not see corperate buyers buying XP and not MP's, therefore it would only be a small loss of cash to the enthusiast market. I don't know, enthusiasts may not be a source of great amount of cash, but its got to be a good idea to keep us "on side" ?? As metalac asks what about Durons, could this indeed be "a way around" ? :cool: "It's unwise ...

Big B Psychic or Psycho? Posts: 3631 Joined: 2001-07-03

#12869 Posted on: 12/14/2001 01:25 PM Yes, this sucks, but it's something AMD should've done from the start. I'm glad they are doing something about it other than simply not supporting it. It was suicide not to do this. While it's not the greatest news to the enthusiast, it's good to see AMD doing something to make what they say happen. So far they need to remove the Lx Bridges fromt the CPU top if they really don't want that multiplier unlocked. I know I'm inviting the wrath of some OC freaks, but AMD has said they won't support this or that, and efforts to enforce it might as well not be there. I've begun to roll my eyes everytime AMD says they won't support something. Like that's really gonna stop people from doing it if ways to over ride it have been subverted. Hardware Forums|2CPU|My DVD's|Heatware=BigB Gigabyte NF650SLI|2GB OCZ PC6400|Pentium E 2160|GF7900GS (SLI)...XP SP2 MSI P965 Neo-F|1GB SuperTalent PC2-5300|PentiumD 920|Radeon X1650...XP SP2

graphix25 SMP Newbie Posts: 2 Joined: 2001-12-01

#12870 Posted on: 12/14/2001 01:29 PM What AMD really needs to do is add some value to the MP's. Currently the only real difference is it's easily unlocked in comparison to its sibling the XP. Although this strategy is the exact same one Intel uses with it's Xeon line. The Xeons will have larger cache options as they did with the PII + PIII Xeons of yester year. Right now the price difference is nominal and is justified do to the extra validation the processors go through. Hopefully the price delta will not grow without adding some damn value. There will be a severe backlash in the computer enthusiasts throughout the world.

GRAFiZ 2x Unhappy Posts: 200 Joined: 2001-09-20

#12871 Posted on: 12/14/2001 01:29 PM Well, I am not supprised, and actually this makes me pleased with my choice on going with the Tiger MP. It also makes sense that AMD would say AthlonXP supports SMP if supported by chipset. Well... shell out the extra bucks or go to Tyan Tiger. To tell you the truth... I have a Rev. 3 and with the new BIOS memory tweaks, being able to overclock the FSB using CPUFSB I don't feel as if the new boards will offer me anything new anyhow. Besides... I'll bet two weeks and someone cracks the bios and figures out how to enable dual XP's.

PlasmaSMP FLOPTERON MADNESS Posts: 163 Joined: 2001-11-09

#12872 Posted on: 12/14/2001 01:40 PM All the more I feel better about my recent Dual XP purchase. My system is getting more reliable every day. In fact I had no more problems after adding the second CPU. All my memory problems went completely away(no more traveling problems). My system is fast, wonderfully reliable, and a heck of a lot cheaper than it could have been. My dual lineage coming from frugal "Scotts" feels proud right now. 2x242 | PC-71 - OCZ 520w | K8T-MASTER2 | 2x1GB PC2700 Transcend REG ECC | 250GB, 500GB RAID10, 300GB | RocketRAID 454 | Audigy + Chaintech | 6800 | DVRA04 | WXP 64-bit | CPD-G410R |

metalac SMP Newbie Posts: 50 Joined: 2001-09-09

#12873 Posted on: 12/14/2001 03:54 PM Well no matter how you look at the decision of AMD you'll notice that they are turning into Intel. If you look at the pricings and the features you'll notice only three categories of consumers for their products. 1. Cheap Home users - people who buy Celerons and Durons and use comps for word procesing and internet 2. Home users - people who buy Athlon XPs, P3s and P4s and use comps for same as above plus some gaming and some more intensive tasks. 3. Business users - People with big wallets to buy 3,000$ rigs using AthlonMPs and Xeons with SCSI drives to use as their servers and workstations. Now where does that leave US?? I really don't think we NEED to justify our need for more power. We need the power that Business users have, but without all extra unecessary features and most importantly without support. How many of us use their comps to make DiVX movies? render some 3D sceneries? Compile? and a lot of other intersting things that need processing power. Now with Intel and AMD making new products that make the $$$ difference between Home and Business users bigger and bigger with every new line of processors and chipsets there is very little room left to spare for us. All this I said might sound weird and you maybe thinking that what AMD is doing is right, but I'm not looking at situation now, I'm looking at whats going to happen next year. When new lines of processors come out I bet the differences are going to be huge, plus the prices of new coming 2000+ XP are outrageous (300$), imagine how much would 2000+ MP cost? If the price rumors are true this means that AMD is geting head to head with Intel in terms of costs. Wasn't AMD supposed to be the POOR man's choice???

CasbahBoy A bit of a lurker Posts: 62 Joined: 2001-04-09

#12874 Posted on: 12/14/2001 04:52 PM I think some of us could have seen this coming from the beginning, the moment they we hear that XPs are 'not supported in dual processor configurations'. We are their customers - but I personally don't think we have much to complain about. They told us from the start that dual XPs don't have to work. Some people got dual XPs instead of the official, guaranteed to work MPs, and got by. Now the XPs won't work, and those who took the chance first are laughing, and those who never planned to take the chance are saying 'I told you so'. I have Heatware and Beerology references.

Vertical Registered User Posts: 13 Joined: 2002-05-13

#12875 Posted on: 12/14/2001 05:35 PM Why is everybody complaining about AMD getting bigger and better? If you were in AMD If you want your dreams to come true, don

LambdaFox SMP Newbie Posts: 5 Joined: 2002-01-24

#12876 Posted on: 12/14/2001 06:28 PM Several posts ask about Durons... I suspect that they will produce the same results, but rumor has it that the MP version of the Durons is supposed to come out right after the first of the year. This, I believe is AMD's attempt to satisfy "us", while not giving up their margins for the corporate buyers. I wonder though, what would happen if you installed pre-morgan durons or pre-xp athlons on an mpx board. These were not marketed as mp-disabled... As for those of you steeping in the satisfaction of having bought an mp board, it seems that all amd would have to do to axe that option is require Tyan to issue a BIOS update which does the same thing. Somewhere down the line, you then face the option of keeping some bug that has been discovered or losing your mp-ability...

Jim_ Administrator Posts: 3464 Joined: 2000-03-15

#12877 Posted on: 12/14/2001 06:32 PM Originally posted by metalac There has to be something illegal in what AMD is doing. heheh... thanks. I'm at work bright and early and your comment helped me start my day with a smile. I'm glad AMD finally got off their ass and made this happen. The enthusiasts might be upset about it, but just remember one very important thing: You don't matter. At least not where 760MP(X) is concerned. Enthusiasts are not the target market; consequently AMD is not going to cater to you all. [url="http://www.2cpu.com"][size=1]2CPU.com[/url] - Because two are always better than one! [url="http://www.jimkirk.org"]jimkirk.org[/url] - Not a Myth any Longer. Just a Dad.[/size]

EazyduzIt Aspiring Duallie Posts: 101 Joined: 2001-02-13

#12878 Posted on: 12/14/2001 06:44 PM AMD is doing what it's got to do to be competitive with Intel in this market. I don't see AMD behaving unethically. The Tyan TigerMP is available for those who want to run XP's, T'birds, Durons. I can happily live with a DuronMP. I just wish more information about DuronMP was available. I don't want this post to come off as self righteous as that is not my intent, but I still think AMD are offering the best performance option for the money. Dual Tualatins/PIII's have a limited upgrade path, whilst the Xeon option is out of the ballpark when it comes to price. Of course, there might become available future bios revisions that allow use of CPU's other than MP's with the MPX chipset.

EazyduzIt Aspiring Duallie Posts: 101 Joined: 2001-02-13

#12879 Posted on: 12/14/2001 06:53 PM Originally posted by LambdaFox As for those of you steeping in the satisfaction of having bought an mp board, it seems that all amd would have to do to axe that option is require Tyan to issue a BIOS update which does the same thing. Somewhere down the line, you then face the option of keeping some bug that has been discovered or losing your mp-ability... Tyan might follow that path, but user could just flash to an older bios revision. It would be impossible for Tyan to put the cat back in the bag. TyanMP's are looking very good to the average "enthusiast", I'd say. I guess I am helping to perpetuate the rumour mill here..

travisgrafx Step 1 = Underpants Posts: 166 Joined: 2001-09-14

#12880 Posted on: 12/14/2001 07:34 PM I mean COMEON!! First its "to increase sales we'll change the name to XP and then slap a number that we pulled out of our @!#@#! so people will think it has a higher hz than it really does (not that it matters)". Then "we'll produce one chip then modify slightly and charge $100.00 more for it". The worst thing is ITS WORKING!!! I've heard many a horror story of people buying the XP thinking it will run XP better or even adding the hz to the end of AMD naming convention (Hell I can do that I have a AMDDuron1000000). Now I have to explain to people "No XP wont run WinXP faster, no the rating is not in hz it "Man who live in glass house should change clothes in basement."

travisgrafx Step 1 = Underpants Posts: 166 Joined: 2001-09-14

#12881 Posted on: 12/14/2001 07:48 PM Enthusiasts are not the target market; consequently AMD is not going to cater to you all. We might not be the target market for sales but we are the target market for PR. Look how much free publicity this site generates. Think about how many times someone asks you opinion about computer hardware and software. Just look at that whole ATI fiasco. They fudged their drivers to make the benchmarks look better. Those drivers where setup that way for "enthusiasts" (people who care about benchmarks). No matter how many extra points they got in the benchmarks was it really worth it in the long run? Is it really worth the 10% to screw the niche market (workstations, servers) that your trying to break into. It doesn't cost anymore to produce an MP over an XP, why not just give yourself the price edge in a new market and come out smelling like a rose instead of looking like @#$@#$. "Man who live in glass house should change clothes in basement."

peteb solittletimesomuchtodo Posts: 331 Joined: 2001-12-06

#12882 Posted on: 12/14/2001 08:05 PM Let me post a few discussion topics here then. How well will you Tiger MP/Thunder7 users feel if Tyan never release another bios that will support XPs in dual configurations? You are probably pretty stable now, so maybe no issue, but think about it. Another one, what if AMD had never released an AlthlonXP? What if all their chips had been MPs straight off. They'd have been more expensive than XPs, but still competitive against PIV. Intel may not have dropped their prices so far either. So - would you have still complained about the MP price if XP had never been there? ... Why shouldn't AMD charge more for a cpu that is dual capable and mark the price as they want. For the guy above trying to draw a parody with Fords and saying it is virtually illegal - utter rubbish. AMD sell the XP, they market it as an XP and they have never said it will do SMP or be supported as such. People got a free ride with the 760MP chipset and now they cry foul when AMD actually enforce what they said from day 1? Get a life! I'm not happy that AMD are doing this, sure I'd love a cheaper option, but you know what - I'm a realist. They are doing it for the same reason I would. They have shareholders and a company to run. They have a reputation, due to market share, as the economy/value option. Now they get products that are capable of standing on their own and everyone shoots because they are trying to make a buck! Well, for those of you in the US, and most other countries in fact, welcome to the real world. It is a capitalist society where the $ is king. If you don't like it vote with youre feet and stick to your dual PIII or Tualatin. Good luck finding an equivalent PIV XEON system at all, let alone within 133% of the price of an MP one. Lian-Li PC-76|Tyan S2466N|2xXP1700|2GB Reg ECC|Enermax651/301 Dual PSU|5x36ES Raid5 ICP Vortex GDT8623RZ|3Ware 7500-8|4xWD1000JB Raid5, 2xMaxtor80GB Raid0|SB Audigy|WinXPSP1|More PCs

Troy Registered User Posts: 60 Joined: 2001-08-19

#12883 Posted on: 12/14/2001 08:11 PM I think AMD should stop making the XP chips and certify all of them for MP use. Of course the prices will go up due to the extra testing but at least people will stop complaining about trying to save a few bucks to use a chip outside of it's "certified" operating parameters. Also looks like the claims made on this board that there is no difference between the chips and there was no way to tell if you had an XP or MP in the system were false.

Phyz Registered User Posts: 101 Joined: 2001-08-23

#12884 Posted on: 12/14/2001 08:13 PM has anyone tried Tbirds in the MPX boards yet? although my gut instinct is that they won't be supported...

2CPU.com » News » December 2001 » AMD says 'No' to dual Athlon XP's?