2CPU.com » News » April 2004 » Dual Core Opterons in existing motherboards?

The Inquirer is reporting that AMD's dual-core Opterons should be able to plug into existing boards. Who said this? AMD's CEO, Hector Ruiz.

... he said that next year its dual chip Opteron-whatever will "shock the hell" out of everyone because it will be pin compatible, hardware compatible and otherwise compatible with existing motherboards.

Check it out.

04/28/2004 01:45 AM: AMD Dual Core K8 Architecture by Jim_
Tom sent in a link to this diagram detailing dual core K8 architecture over at vr-zone.com. There's not much to read but you might be able to get a sense of how it works from the diagram. Take a loo...

12/31/2002 05:16 PM: AMD's Hammer could have dual cores by nitro_fish
The boys over at the The Inquirer have a nice tid bit of information regarding the possibility of putting two hammer cores on one die. I remember hearing about this awhile back. So check it out the ...

tandr Aspiring Duallie Posts: 61 Joined: 2001-10-09

#28882 Posted on: 04/29/2004 09:50 PM Yesss!!! Thanks Ruiz, now I know what mb I gonna buy for my new comp. Now if someone will promise nice fast cards for AGP slots for next 3-5 years...

opus13 misanthrope. Posts: 1628 Joined: 2002-04-05

#28883 Posted on: 04/29/2004 09:51 PM that just made me even happier that i went all out for a dual optie system! i knew that an intel board would have very limited options for 'drop-in' upgrading. this opens up a whole new level of forward compatibility

Occupant Registered User Posts: 2421 Joined: 2002-03-04

#28884 Posted on: 04/29/2004 11:34 PM It would depend on your budget... Do you think one of these dual core CPU's will be affordable? Id like to see a dual core Athlon FX... Oh, and on the topic, of what I'd like to see, make it an 'affordable' chip for once... Say around $700 CDN...

stvy Registered User Posts: 180 Joined: 2001-10-19

#28885 Posted on: 04/30/2004 12:04 AM Hi, The word is that the dual core opeteron at 90nm will be very close to the die size of the current single core opteron at 130nm. Due to no need to duplicate crossbar, memory controller, hyper transport links etc. So it could theoretically be about the same cost to AMD to produce so the question is will AMD sell it at a simliar price? Cheers Stvy

Sargnagel SMP Newbie Posts: 15 Joined: 2001-02-10

#28886 Posted on: 04/30/2004 12:19 AM Originally posted by stvy So it could theoretically be about the same cost to AMD to produce so the question is will AMD sell it at a simliar price? "He [Ruiz] reckons that people with a two processor product will be able to throw in a dual core Opteron and get a four way system for the price of two." We can only hope ... Is a roadmap around that shows in which quarter of 2005 the Dual Core Opterons are going to be available?

opus13 misanthrope. Posts: 1628 Joined: 2002-04-05

#28887 Posted on: 04/30/2004 12:26 AM once dual core processors are the norm, dies that mean that 2cpu.com will be renamed 2

Disk11 Registered User Posts: 941 Joined: 2003-03-11

#28888 Posted on: 04/30/2004 03:34 AM Yeah, in preperation of common users getting dual cores sometime around 2010:rolleyes: Looks quite promsing, I can't wait. [size=1]heatware [URL="https://www.paypal.com/us/verified/pal=disk11%40gmail%2ecom"]Paypal[/URL] Non-free email: mst0110 AT ecu DOT edu the ever growing anime collection[/size]

opus13 misanthrope. Posts: 1628 Joined: 2002-04-05

#28889 Posted on: 04/30/2004 04:11 AM Originally posted by Disk11 Yeah, in preperation of common users getting dual cores sometime around 2010:rolleyes: Looks quite promsing, I can't wait. that is kind of a defeatist attitude, dont you think?

Disk11 Registered User Posts: 941 Joined: 2003-03-11

#28890 Posted on: 04/30/2004 07:42 AM Damn, thats quick. Edit: I had no clue Intel and AMD were going to move this to the desktop market so quick. I was under the impression that dual cores would stay in the server market for a while and later migrate to the desktop market. I did remember reading about quickly getting dual cores to the mobile maket. [size=1]heatware [URL="https://www.paypal.com/us/verified/pal=disk11%40gmail%2ecom"]Paypal[/URL] Non-free email: mst0110 AT ecu DOT edu the ever growing anime collection[/size]

i_wolf labhair dom as gaelige Posts: 2097 Joined: 2002-11-19

#28891 Posted on: 04/30/2004 08:44 AM I wonder would dual core licencing with windows fall under the same licence concept as hyperthreading current does with Windows...??? Hung like a donkey. Go like a horse!

njpluta Registered User Posts: 138 Joined: 2002-11-25

#28892 Posted on: 04/30/2004 10:08 AM Originally posted by i_wolf I wonder would dual core licencing with windows fall under the same licence concept as hyperthreading current does with Windows...??? Most likely not. These are two fully independent processors. The processors share the memory controler and Hypertransport busses. Basically two cpus on one piece of silicon. Visuals might help: http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=734&s=1http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=734&s=1[/URL] http://the-inquirer.net/?article=13344

[L2K]FiShy It does .5 past the Inet Posts: 545 Joined: 2001-09-11

#28893 Posted on: 04/30/2004 12:30 PM Originally posted by opus13 that is kind of a defeatist attitude, dont you think? haha thats a retort! My heart beats true!

stmok23 Registered User Posts: 798 Joined: 2002-02-02

#28894 Posted on: 04/30/2004 01:40 PM Wow! Looks like I might hang around the 2cpu scene and abandon my Athlon 64 plan... I knew Opteron will have dual cores, and the Rep from AMD in the Stanford "AMD64" video seminar confirmed that AMD did make provisions for a 2nd core in the Opteron. I didn't know its gonna be compatible with the existing gear! So, you could drop-in a dual-core Opteron, (assuming you also need a BIOS update for the mobo) and really get pumping with 4 CPUs... Yeah, MS is gonna make a killing out of this with their Licensing...I better start improving my Linux skills. Sempron (Socket 754): 2x Abit NF8-V (nForce3 250Gb) and ASRock K8SLI-eSATA2 (ULi M1697) Dual CPU love: Supermicro P6DBE (i440BX), PIIIDRE (i840), 2x PIIIDR3 (i840), 4x ASUS P3C-D (i820), and ACorp 6A815EPD1 (i815EP) OSs?: Linux, Solaris and BSDs.

tandr Aspiring Duallie Posts: 61 Joined: 2001-10-09

#28895 Posted on: 04/30/2004 11:13 PM ... and because you bought Office 3000 for only one processor, you will have to set affinity manually every time you want to run it

Disk11 Registered User Posts: 941 Joined: 2003-03-11

#28896 Posted on: 05/01/2004 05:56 AM Hopefully this will force more software to be SMP compatable. I read some research papers on this indicating that dual cores is an attempt to reduce heat output that as well all know is getting a bit out of hand. [size=1]heatware [URL="https://www.paypal.com/us/verified/pal=disk11%40gmail%2ecom"]Paypal[/URL] Non-free email: mst0110 AT ecu DOT edu the ever growing anime collection[/size]

matroxgaming "I'm The King!!!!!!!!!!" Posts: 63 Joined: 2004-04-17

#28897 Posted on: 05/01/2004 06:40 AM Guess I buy the Cheepo Opertrons when I build in a few month, then buy the highest running dual core when released. This is great news for us who KNOW dual core is coming but need a system soon. An upgrade path is there, great work AMD.

rmn oh my, it's huge! Posts: 6013 Joined: 2002-01-26

#28898 Posted on: 05/01/2004 08:20 AM Originally posted by Disk11 I read some research papers on this indicating that dual cores is an attempt to reduce heat output that as well all know is getting a bit out of hand. How does putting two cores on a chip instead of one reduce heat output...? :confused: RMN ~~~

Disk11 Registered User Posts: 941 Joined: 2003-03-11

#28899 Posted on: 05/01/2004 11:48 AM Intel/AMD is worried about getting Joe Sixpack a reasonable way to cool a 7 ghz beast, so they difer to 2x 3 ghz CPU that *should* be much easier to cool using the same core(s). [size=1]heatware [URL="https://www.paypal.com/us/verified/pal=disk11%40gmail%2ecom"]Paypal[/URL] Non-free email: mst0110 AT ecu DOT edu the ever growing anime collection[/size]

stmok23 Registered User Posts: 798 Joined: 2002-02-02

#28900 Posted on: 05/01/2004 12:35 PM In this sense, its more effiicient. You can have a single CPU that produces 105W+ or have something that is dual-core that produces 90W. (45W if its smart enough to turn one core off in idle mode). Sempron (Socket 754): 2x Abit NF8-V (nForce3 250Gb) and ASRock K8SLI-eSATA2 (ULi M1697) Dual CPU love: Supermicro P6DBE (i440BX), PIIIDRE (i840), 2x PIIIDR3 (i840), 4x ASUS P3C-D (i820), and ACorp 6A815EPD1 (i815EP) OSs?: Linux, Solaris and BSDs.

rmn oh my, it's huge! Posts: 6013 Joined: 2002-01-26

#28901 Posted on: 05/01/2004 08:57 PM Well, of course, if you cut down the clock speed from 7 to 3 GHz, it's going to reduce power consumption. :rolleyes: But it's not the two cores that are doing that, it's the reduction in clock speed. The resulting CPU is also going to be (much) slower running non-SMP software. So it's not going to have much of an impact in the market that buys the fastest single-CPU systems: gamers. Regular (non-gaming) home / office users don't need a fast CPU at all, so they'll just go on buying the slow single-core models. And most high-end users (animation, number-crunching) need all the speed they can get, so they'll buy the faster dual-core models (2 cores at the same speed as the fastest single-core chips), regardless of power consumption. I really don't see who would be interested in a dual-core chip that runs at less than half the clock speed of the single-core chip, unless they only run highly optimised SMP software and care a lot more about power consumption than they do about speed and physical space. Heat is (roughly) a consequence of the number of transistors times clock speed. A dual-core chip doesn't have twice as many transistors as a single-core one (because not everything is duplicated), but it doesn't have that much less, either. The execution units and register files are all there (and those are the busiest bits). If you double the transistors and halve the clock speed, you end up with pretty much the same power consumption (and therefore heat dissipation). And the system will get much slower running non-SMP software. It's a win-a-bit / lose-a-lot situation. RMN ~~~

Occupant Registered User Posts: 2421 Joined: 2002-03-04

#28902 Posted on: 05/02/2004 12:13 AM Originally posted by i_wolf I wonder would dual core licencing with windows fall under the same licence concept as hyperthreading current does with Windows...??? Unless AMD builds someway for windows to know the difference between dual cpu, and dual dual core cpu, I think the dual dual core cpu will require an enterprise edition of windows... If this comes to pass, I would run a copy of linux (say SuSE 64 bit edition) with VMware, and run windows xp from the virtual machine....

LRSeriesIII Aspiring Rocket Scientist Posts: 1128 Joined: 2002-08-29

#28903 Posted on: 05/02/2004 04:50 AM I am a little bit more optimistic about licensing issues with Windows, especially with the x86-64 bit version. After all, MS probably knew about dual core processors coming sooner rather than later a while ago. If dual processor, dual core (effectively quad processor) systems become popular as workstations, there are going to be a large number of people not too keen on paying out for Windows Server on a workstation. ->Computers ->Folding for team 3074

Disk11 Registered User Posts: 941 Joined: 2003-03-11

#28904 Posted on: 05/02/2004 06:08 AM rmn, it may force software companies to add in SMP support as more people will have dual processor systems (See Creative and P4 HT). Sure, if the situation stays as it is, then slower dual cored processors will not be useful for most people. [size=1]heatware [URL="https://www.paypal.com/us/verified/pal=disk11%40gmail%2ecom"]Paypal[/URL] Non-free email: mst0110 AT ecu DOT edu the ever growing anime collection[/size]

rmn oh my, it's huge! Posts: 6013 Joined: 2002-01-26

#28905 Posted on: 05/02/2004 06:39 AM One thing is being compatible with SMP systems. Actually making use of SMP is something quite different. I think it's the chicken and egg situation. SMP can't take off in some areas (ex., gaming) because there's no software support, and there isn't any support because very few people have SMP systems, and it doesn't pay do develop specifically for them. In other areas, like DCC, the picture is different. It's reasonably easy for 3DS MAX to tell one CPU to render one frame and the other CPU to render another (or two halves of the same frame). It's not quite as easy to divide tasks in a game, where what happens in one frame depends on what happened in the previous one, as well as on what the player did meanwhile. Maybe if dual-core chips become common, more games will start taking advantage of SMP / SMT, but gamers will only buy those chips if they run single-threaded games as fast as the single-core chips. So it's chicken and egg again. HT (I mean threading, not transport) has been around for quite some time, and I don't think any game uses it. Games need a lot of things to happen in a predictable sequence, and things get a lot more complicated when you have 2 threads running, let alone a variable number. RMN ~~~

i_wolf labhair dom as gaelige Posts: 2097 Joined: 2002-11-19

#28906 Posted on: 05/02/2004 08:05 AM RMN: yes that is an interesting point of view. However , slightly related, I was at a talk in Trinity College a while back where a few of the lead Intel guys were giving a talk about the future of silicon and multicore processors was mentioned quite a bit (as was you guessed it... hyper threading.) Essentially what intel was saying is that there will come a time ( probably sooner than we think) where it will not be efficient or cost effective to keep ramping up single core chips... What they were getting at was that going forward, each year and a half or so, we expect a die shrink, but lately the gap between shrinks is taking longer and longer than expected and more and more issues are arrising before a manufacturing process becomes ideal . They didn't spell anything out at all (.9nm Prescott anyone!). They were saying that .45 is prob more than likely further off than we think.... but that they believe that the future for processor scaling will be with multicore chips down the line. I 100% agree that presently multicore is a waste for anything that is non SMP aware like Maya, 3dsMax etc... and for situations where extreme multitasking is required (graphic designers). However i guess what really was the crux of the argument was that there will come a time where games and traditional uni processor apps themselves will really be able to take advantage of multicore chips or as they put it, they will have to. From a game devloper point of view that may mean having one cpu working the physics and another the game logic? It really isn't that hard to imagine. Yes from a software development point of view, more emphasis woudl need to be taken as to parallelising as many threads as possible and there would be greater skill required in coding, but maybe thats just a shift in software design methodology (similar in the move from procedural to OOP ???). Basically I'm not saying this is going to happen, just that it is a possibilty that this is the future of silicon and that software will have to adapt if technology is to keep pushing forward as fast as it is! Rgs i_wolf Hung like a donkey. Go like a horse!

2CPU.com » News » April 2004 » Dual Core Opterons in existing motherboards?