2CPU.com » News » February 2005 » The "Official Word" from AMD

A lot of you have inquired as to why we haven't had much Opteron coverage here at 2CPU, so I thought I would post AMD's "official reply" to an email I sent asking about a pair of the new Opteron 252s for review.

Sorry to disappoint, but I won't be seeding Opterons going forward. For the most part we'll be relying on the Tier-1 reviews and system builders reviews for folks to read about machines their companies can buy.

I do have a pair of older Opterons here to use for the related products already inhouse, but it looks like AMD has no interest in helping us out moving forward. So, next time you read an Opteron review here on the site (I have 2 coming very soon), think twice before asking "Well why didn't you test against the Opteron2xx?" Because, we don't have them and can't get them. What do you think? Is AMD abandoning the (enthusiast) market that helped get them where they are today?

spazoid Registered User Posts: 107 Joined: 2004-04-29

#34531 Posted on: 02/14/2005 09:23 PM Does this mean an opteron price cut is comming? I hope so..! Q6600, Asus P5B-Deluxe, 2x 2GB Corsair PC6400, Inno3D GeForce 285 , Corsair HX520W, Antec P182 Adaptec 31605: 4x Samsung T166 500GB (RAID-5), 2x Seagate 7200.7 200GB (RAID-1)

Calum Running on empty Posts: 1897 Joined: 2002-10-11

#34532 Posted on: 02/14/2005 09:53 PM Yes, I think AMD now thinks that it doesn't need to get enthusiasts interested in Opteron sales, and that they'll get enough through their sales to OEMs. I can't say I'm surprised, they can barely satisfy demand as it is - they don't need extra sales, they need more production capacity. The overhead of dealing with relatively small websites such as 2CPU.com is not one their marketing folk perceive as being worth it. My hardware enthusiast head is disappointed, but my business head knows it's what I would do if I were in the same position and asked to cut costs. My Computers|2CPU.com SETI@Home Stats|My eBay feedback|My Heatware|Have you seen the future?

ReMeDy Running on empty Posts: 12389 Joined: 2001-02-10

#34533 Posted on: 02/14/2005 10:05 PM Is AMD abandoning the (enthusiast) I don't actually think it's an abandoning the enthusiast. Because the AMD Tech Tours are still ineffect(I believe). I think it has more to do of "We accomplished the enthusiast market, let's go up another level to the Small-Mid business, higher revenue" market category. But the sad part is, We, as 2cpu are lumped into the same class of "Low tier" sites because of (some sites i will not mention.) the Editor in chief likes to go around smashing a Companies Console, firing shots @ graphic card companies for not sending them a review unit, having random Blogs posted because he felt like ranting in such a industry. It's that type of behavior that keeps sites like ours lumped into the half-baked ones. Most "upper level" sites have dedicated reviewers who spend all day coming up with new articles and writing. While we, on the other hand have daily jobs(children,wife) that need to be tended to first. Instead of looking @ how our site interface or graphic layout is designed or the article frequency is. Check our (Job related & expereince)credentials first. Webserver article Xeons @ 3Ghz by Jim_ Thunder K8S Kernel Comparison Workstation case from Silverstonetek SuperMicro Super quiet article Dell 600SC Asus 1U Rack I think I made my point. Very informative. Quality over quanity. If you think we're a small, generic based site based on traffic and article count. Then, send us the proper hardware to help excel the credibility of the site. We can't grow unless we receive the proper hardware to review. Give us a chance already. |[size=1][url=http://forums.2cpu.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=279831#post279831][color=yellow]FAQ's[/url][/color][/size]|Heatware-Remedy{WcS}|Dual760|Beerology|

Mixwell Always Mix Well Posts: 450 Joined: 2003-01-11

#34534 Posted on: 02/14/2005 10:17 PM Well put, Remedy. Leader of 'Team' Mixwell, Folding @ Home - Member of the 96m Point Club || References: Heatware | Ebay | Beerology

~GEO~ Always Mix Well Posts: 248 Joined: 2000-07-27

#34535 Posted on: 02/14/2005 10:52 PM I think this is a bad move by AMD. There should be exceptions allowed to this type of "rule". It really is reflective of the kind of marketing crap the web is all about these days. It isn't about the quality of the review, it is all about who can pimp the product the best and get the most people to look at that pimpage. I think AMD should make exceptions for sites such as 2cpu.com. There are plenty of people that frequent this site and talk in the forums that are purchasing for their companies. Helll, I have to purchase for the lab I'm working in. Do you think I want to go out to one of the industry rag sites and read a review about an opteron system? Do you think I even want to go out to Tom's Review or Anandtech? Nope. I would rather come over to 2cpu and get the skinny, then head to the forums and see who else has the cpu/board and their experiences. THEN I'll buy. Teir 1 sites. Whatever. I think a lot of these are getting spread too thin. For instance, why would I go to anandtech for camera reviews when there are better more-specifc sites like dpreview and stevesdigicams?? I guess you have to roll with it, but I've seen too many decent sites taken out by this type of policy and I'd hate to see 2cpu stimeyd by this type of declaration. *end of rant* G EDIT: One more thing, wasn't it ****Ocp that had their forum server RAID 1 and bragging about it? I bet they get Opterons. |Via C3 1gig Fedora router|ASUS P3V4X Celeron 1.4 FreeBSD server|

ReMeDy Always Mix Well Posts: 12389 Joined: 2001-02-10

#34536 Posted on: 02/14/2005 11:20 PM it is all about who can pimp the product the best THG did this article depreciating AMD's credibility. But, yet. They still receive these for an article? :confused: :confused: |[size=1][url=http://forums.2cpu.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=279831#post279831][color=yellow]FAQ's[/url][/color][/size]|Heatware-Remedy{WcS}|Dual760|Beerology|

stmok23 Registered User Posts: 797 Joined: 2002-02-02

#34537 Posted on: 02/15/2005 12:15 AM Because THG don't know WTF they're doing 95% of the time! (Burning up a CPU is just saying "we got plenty of $$$ to blow"). The other 5% is because sometimes they miraculously produce some results that someone can use! THG is well known and has a large visitor base, but lack any technical knowledge...Anyone can run a couple of benchmarks and say one is faster...The problem is, they don't explain why one is slower and what the benchmarks really mean! Since they're too incompetent to do some decent technical explanation, its perfect for Marketing. THG => Pimp's Hardware (enough ads to slowdown page loading...Rivals most pRon sites!) Sempron (Socket 754): 2x Abit NF8-V (nForce3 250Gb) and ASRock K8SLI-eSATA2 (ULi M1697) Dual CPU love: Supermicro P6DBE (i440BX), PIIIDRE (i840), 2x PIIIDR3 (i840), 4x ASUS P3C-D (i820), and ACorp 6A815EPD1 (i815EP) OSs?: Linux, Solaris and BSDs.

mjwood66 Registered User Posts: 86 Joined: 2004-12-02

#34538 Posted on: 02/15/2005 12:15 AM I think the lack of production capabilities is probably right on the money. I mean, it is said that Dell does not produce AMD based systems because AMD cannot deliver the required amount of product. I do not know if that is true, but it would be nice for competition if Dell did produce AMD based machines (I would not buy them, but competition is good). Also, I remember reading awhile ago that Serverworks was going to start making AMD chipsets, but that still has not happened. And finally, what would AMD give to have Supermicro make AMD Opteron boards? I mean the typical enthusiast companies like Asus, Gigabyte, and MSI make really good boards for AMD, but they really do not make a wide selection of server boards for AMD. Supermicro and Tyan are two heavy hitters in the server/workstation industry and only Tyan makes AMD boards. MSI and Iwill give pretty good selections for Opteron server/workstations, but Tyan has the widest variations. In addition, they have the reputation in that market. It is an open fact that even though many of us here would love to have a set of 252s on the latest nVidia chipset platform, AMD is really targeting these things to take market share from the Xeon. What I think is really amusing is that even as AMD appears to leave the enthusiast community out of this one, Tyan is delivering a pair of nVidia based boards that can be *gasp* overclocked. That is some really interesting news...particularly since Tyan is actually advertising it on their website. Schroedinger's Cat lives...or not

~GEO~ Registered User Posts: 248 Joined: 2000-07-27

#34539 Posted on: 02/15/2005 12:25 AM Originally posted by ReMeDy THG did this article depreciating AMD's credibility. But, yet. They still receive these for an article? :confused: :confused: Yeah, I think the top two hardware review sites might get away with one once in a while, but for any site other than Tom's and Anand, I bet they would loose out forever (unless readership went up big). I guess I should've clarified in my ranting. I think that "most" sites, even some/many/most of the teir 1 will pimp rather then spread truth these days. OT Kinda: I have also noticed that more sites are moving to the "Pros"/"Cons" system without any "Score". This also seems to be a marketing thing. You can easily quote a pro and leave the cons out, so I'm guessing sites can use that as leverage and the various companies are sure to like that better too. |Via C3 1gig Fedora router|ASUS P3V4X Celeron 1.4 FreeBSD server|

tshen83 Registered User Posts: 258 Joined: 2002-04-04

#34540 Posted on: 02/15/2005 12:44 AM AMD just doesn't feel like what it used to be before...i mean look at what they are doing.....ever since that crap Motorola guy became AMD's CFO or something, they jacked up athlonxp prices almost 20-30%...introduced Semprons that also with inflated ratings compared to their own athlonxp ratings....kept Opteron prices high, kept Opeteron 1xx from being used in a dual setup, released 754 and 939 to ditch the original customers of 754 socket,...the list goes on and on...at this rate, AMD just won't have enough cash for the fab they NEED for 65nm production...intel already started on the 65nm stuff...i say screw AMD...(this is coming from a guy with 5 XP processors in his room) System: Mobo: ECS P35T-A CPU: Q6600 Ram: 4x1GB DDR2-800 Video card: 8800GT and 8400GS OS: Linux XUbuntu 7.10 64bit

Grumpy Registered User Posts: 230 Joined: 2003-02-25

#34541 Posted on: 02/15/2005 02:28 AM It is a shame that AMD could not loan a pair, sure, they cannot possibly give any away, but surely a week. This site is without doubt a critical SMP support site, and I for one go no where else to find solutions or to help out when it comes to my Duallies. AMD is just getting to big and the head is a little swollen I did notice from the AMD Site that the prices will be dropping a level like last time..244 will be the new entry CPU at the 242 price etc, and several places say this Opteron brings SSE3 :eek: Iwill DK8N | 246*2 | 4 512MB Legend PC3200 | Albatron 6800GT 256 MB | Seagate 160 GB Sata * 2 | Tagan 480W

KimVette Corvette Fanatic Posts: 943 Joined: 2002-07-30

#34542 Posted on: 02/15/2005 02:35 AM Well I haven't bought an AMD product since my K6. Since most (ALL?) software was optmiized for Intel there was no benefit to switching to AMD. Now that AMD has caught up and surpassed Intel in many respects, I was considering AMD for some SMP workstations but since a) AMD won't give 2cpu the time of day abd b) Intel's 64-bit x86 processors are right around the corner, I'll just stick with Intel. That's only going to be a handful of workstations, sure, but I'm sure AMD would rather they get the sale of those few processors than their competitor. My configuration: Many hopelessly outdated SMP boxen. Any system which is shipping is already obsolete! u r lame if u insist on trying 2 b l337 by abbrev evythng u type when asking ppl 4 hlp. kiddie speak is teh sux. ppl. plz stop teh kiddie speak. thx. hint: aol kiddie speak is not cool, it just makes people not want to read your post.

mbetea Leper of 2cpu Posts: 1379 Joined: 2002-02-15

#34543 Posted on: 02/15/2005 02:38 AM That is a shame. Get a little leverage on their side then forget where they came from. I'm not sure but didn't one of the mods here post before about how Iwill (and maybe Tyan too) seemed to be interested in promoting their products on 2cpu.com? I wonder if a letter to one of these companies might get something rolling. matt

sAvAgE69 Unregistered

#34544 Posted on: 02/15/2005 02:40 AM Sorry to disappoint, but I won't be seeding Opterons going forward. For the most part we'll be relying on the Tier-1 reviews and system builders reviews for folks to read about machines their companies can buy. Then what does AMD think is a Tier One Site? And what can we do as a community to make 2cpu a Tier One Site? I mean we have enough hardware enthusiasts. can we all pitch in together and if someone buys a great piece of hardware then they do a review on it then gets proof read by the admins? Would that help any?

Augustus Registered User Posts: 313 Joined: 2002-10-29

#34545 Posted on: 02/15/2005 02:40 AM ...and several places say this Opteron brings SSE3 That's what the press release says. It's official. Augustus

LRSeriesIII Aspiring Rocket Scientist Posts: 1120 Joined: 2002-08-29

#34546 Posted on: 02/15/2005 02:53 AM This is quite the disappointment. It also seems that Intel has not taken the same route but instead has continued to offer processors and so forth for the site to review. I have to agree with Calum though, if I was in AMD's position, I might make the same moves. Business is business, and all that. I do have to wonder, though, if AMD just sent Hooz a boilerplate response. It seems to me that 2CPU is somewhat unusual given its focus, the excellent quality of the content, and the type of people the site draws. While it may not draw anywhere near as many views as Anandtech, THG, HardOCP, etcetera, I would suggest that a greater portion of 2CPU's visitors are the people that AMD wants to target when they give hardware out to review sites. Unless someone is actually familiar with the site though, it could be very easy to write it off as just another hardware review site. So, I guess what I am wondering (ever the optimist that I am), is this: Is it at all possible that AMD did not know exactly who it was they were turning down...and if so might they still be open to a little...er..."persuasion"? ->Computers ->Folding for team 3074

Augustus Registered User Posts: 313 Joined: 2002-10-29

#34547 Posted on: 02/15/2005 02:59 AM Originally posted by LRSeriesIII So, I guess what I am wondering (ever the optimist that I am), is this: Is it at all possible that AMD did not know exactly who it was they were turning down...and if so might they still be open to a little...er..."persuasion"? No. AMD's line is official and pretty all incompasing. Check out my post on LinuxHardware.org: http://www.linuxhardware.org/article.pl?sid=05/02/14/1719235&mode=thread Augustus

LP_Dayblade Experienced SMP'er Posts: 334 Joined: 2001-09-27

#34548 Posted on: 02/15/2005 03:01 AM I echo every comment on this topic - If it wasn't for the informative and in depth knowledge of the reviews and thoughts on 2cpu.com - I wouldn't have spec'd out dual rigs servers when I know a sales rep would have pushed me down the "more mhz is better" route. On a side note - do you think HP is playing a role in this - i.e. AMD may not have the quantity of processors to send out for PR work? http://www.infoworld.com/article/05/02/14/HNopteronblades_1.html Just curious if AMD thinks that the Opterons are for business only now and that we (some professionals, some enthusiasts and others just flat out 2cpu geeks ) are no longer a viable influence to the choices in the business market? Bad PR decision here I am thinking. Dayblade Dayblade Rig #1: Platinum: Windows 7 Pro 64-bit, AMD X2-5200 8GB DDR2, 3 TB, 1GB ATI HD 3870x2 Rig #2: Azure: Windows XP 32-bit, AMD Phenom X3 440, 4GB DDR2, 1TB, 2GB ATI HD 4850x2

Fisty McDingus Registered User Posts: 4 Joined: 2005-01-24

#34549 Posted on: 02/15/2005 03:32 AM Originally posted by KimVette Now that AMD has caught up and surpassed Intel in many respects, I was considering AMD for some SMP workstations but since a) AMD won't give 2cpu the time of day abd b) Intel's 64-bit x86 processors are right around the corner, I'll just stick with Intel. That's only going to be a handful of workstations, sure, but I'm sure AMD would rather they get the sale of those few processors than their competitor. Yes, base your purchasing decisions on whether a company will give free samples of products to a smallish enthusiast site. I mean, really, come on. 2CPU is great, but I don't understand why AMD bashing needs to occur because they won't send you a bunch of free shit.

Calum Running on empty Posts: 1897 Joined: 2002-10-11

#34550 Posted on: 02/15/2005 03:34 AM AMD would, I think rather sell its relatively limited CPU production to OEM server and workstation vendors than to the likes of many of us (hardware enthusiasts). The reason? It wants to get a presence in the datacentre. That's where Intel still rules (at least for commodity x86 hardware) and where the big money really is. In order to do this, it needs to get Tier 1 hardware vendors (the likes of IBM, HP, Sun etc) selling kit to big firms, stuff that AMD can hang its hat on and say "we are a truly enterprise-ready firm". Now as we know, 2CPU.com is not your average hardware site. I imagine if we summed the "authorised spending power" of those who are members here (i.e. how much money you can influence the spending of, certainly privately but especially in a professional capacity) we'd come up with a large number! However, AMD very probably doesn't have the knowledge to say "well this small hardware site has a very select audience, we'll send them some CPUs". They just know that a great many review sites are two-bit outfits looking for free kit, and have little credibility with their new target audience (for Opterons) the IT Managers and CIOs. So, they make a blanket rule and take the guys who had been liasing with the hardware enthusiast sites and re-assign them. It's harsh but AMD aren't exactly rolling in it at the moment, and they need all the cost savings they can get. Short sighted? Possibly. But these decisions are likely made by senior guys, for whom this kind of detail is way beneath what they're concerned with. Since hardware enthusiasts are a small fraction of computer buyers, and SMP enthusiasts are a small fraction of that again, I imagine that the sales they'll lose pale into insignificance, compared with what they stand to gain if they're sucessful. Of course, they may be burning their bridges and on a hiding to nothing in the enterprise space, but only time will tell. My Computers|2CPU.com SETI@Home Stats|My eBay feedback|My Heatware|Have you seen the future?

ReMeDy Running on empty Posts: 12389 Joined: 2001-02-10

#34551 Posted on: 02/15/2005 04:19 AM but I don't understand why AMD bashing needs to occur because they won't send you a bunch of free shit. It's not about receiving "free shit". It's mostly a matter of gratitude. Yes 2cpu is low trafficked portal. No, we don't do 25,30,40 page articles that were mostly quoted from press release kits by the manufacture. But, to ridicule this site as less than stellar is pretty obnoxious. There aren't 35 ads on the front page like other sites. This is paid for by the administrators out of there pocket. The ads that you see pay for very little of the bill. So, it isn't like the staff makes money hand over fist. That's what our day time jobs are for. We're a niche factor. A strong one at that because this market is a very expensive one. $1,200 64bit processors. High end server/workstation boards. $500 SCSi RAID controllers. 2,4,8GB+ of tier 1 based DRAM. 8U rackmount chassis'. Discussions of iTanium, Power 5, Sun servers and workstations. Undisputed folding champion, globally. The list goes on. It all happens here daily. I *think*, the problem evolved after AMD opened up there bulletin board based forum in '03. "We have our own forum now, we don't need your low traffic based site." Sorry to say, but that forum is lacking. Above is my opinion, and in no way repersents this site on a whole. |[size=1][url=http://forums.2cpu.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=279831#post279831][color=yellow]FAQ's[/url][/color][/size]|Heatware-Remedy{WcS}|Dual760|Beerology|

nine Registered User Posts: 1303 Joined: 2004-03-11

#34552 Posted on: 02/15/2005 04:42 AM Originally posted by ReMeDy It's not about receiving "free shit". It's mostly a matter of gratitude. Yes 2cpu is low trafficked portal. No, we don't do 25,30,40 page articles that were mostly quoted from press release kits by the manufacture. But, to ridicule this site as less than stellar is pretty obnoxious. You said it right there- 2cpu's traffic isn't huge. Well, they're in the business of making money and if you're not within the parameters of thier strategy, then........ that kind of sucks. Sure, it would be nice to see them keep on giving you guys review CPUs, but it's not like they've only cut 2cpu off and it's some personal thing. Originally posted by ReMeDy There aren't 35 ads on the front page like other sites. This is paid for by the administrators out of there pocket. The ads that you see pay for very little of the bill. So, it isn't like the staff makes money hand over fist. That's what our day time jobs are for. What do you want, a cookie? Does that give you guys some sort of "indie" cred? 'Cause I can guarantee that AMD couldn't care less. It sounds mean, but really, that section of your post is pointless. Originally posted by ReMeDy We're a niche factor. A strong one at that because this market is a very expensive one. $1,200 64bit processors. High end server/workstation boards. $500 SCSi RAID controllers. 2,4,8GB+ of tier 1 based DRAM. 8U rackmount chassis'. Discussions of iTanium, Power 5, Sun servers and workstations. Undisputed folding champion, globally. The list goes on. It all happens here daily. THEN PROVE THAT TO THEM. It sucks that AMD changed thier strategy for giving out samples and it has left 2cpu out in the cold. I'm not happy about that either. But people treating this like AMD took a shit on thier front door is kind of embarassing. Grow up. It's business and that's the way it is sometimes. Personally, I think that if 2cpu pursues this a little more and proves to AMD that reviews on this site would benefit them, they'd change thier mind. You just have to prove your value to them. This is what this whole issue is about- they want value for the work they're going to put into giving out samples.

Grumpy Registered User Posts: 230 Joined: 2003-02-25

#34553 Posted on: 02/15/2005 06:38 AM One surprise is the 242 is being kept as a real cheap entry level Opteron @ US$163. All are now 90 Nano with SSE3 as Augustus said Iwill DK8N | 246*2 | 4 512MB Legend PC3200 | Albatron 6800GT 256 MB | Seagate 160 GB Sata * 2 | Tagan 480W

ReMeDy Registered User Posts: 12389 Joined: 2001-02-10

#34554 Posted on: 02/15/2005 07:02 AM You said it right there- 2cpu's traffic isn't huge First of all. The traffic isn't huge as opposed to what AT, OCP and the groupie sites invite. The amount traffic that goes there, those people are only buying Desktop, low budget cpus. This site, invites, the niche factor group that AMD is looking for with the Sledgehammer. Take a look in the General hardware,motherboard forum and the Case modders forum. Do you see any Mass amount athlon64 threads? No. Of course not. More people buy Desktop processors than upper class server base. So of course we're not going to get that traffic the other sites do. But the amount of money an opteron or xeon cost makes up more for that market. People who do DCC, CAD, etc. Those markets are profitable. If it wasn't. Then there wouldn't be any point to this site. What do you want, a cookie? What are you talking about?:confused: I never mentioned anything about what we wanted or any type of pat on the back or anything. I said we don't sit around behind a PC all day writing and new articles all day everyday. We have jobs. Other sites have editor that do it and still can't get the information right. How many editors from other websites come here in advance before they write an article? You'd be very surprised how many of them do. So, yes. Even as enthusiast and hobbyist. This site has played a major role. Any promotion for their product from ourside would benefit them. But people treating this like AMD took a shit on thier front door is kind of embarassing. No. People are wee bit ticked because (IIRC), They only have begun to take a pinch @ the market . What did they gain by being selective? Not much... Grow up lol gg's. |[size=1][url=http://forums.2cpu.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=279831#post279831][color=yellow]FAQ's[/url][/color][/size]|Heatware-Remedy{WcS}|Dual760|Beerology|

nine Registered User Posts: 1303 Joined: 2004-03-11

#34555 Posted on: 02/15/2005 07:33 AM How many editors from other websites come here in advance before they write an article? You'd be very surprised how many of them do. So, yes. Even as enthusiast and hobbyist. This site has played a major role. Any promotion for their product from ourside would benefit them. This is exactly what I'm saying. Tell AMD this, not me, for god's sake! Considering the action they've taken, it's not like they're about to do market research for you. You're gonna have to point this out to them. Don't get me wrong- I'm on 2cpu's side, but I think that instead of being a bunch of whiny kids about it, you should approach it from a business point of view. Find out what they want and show how you can give it to them. This is the kind of situation that seperates the websites that are run as a business and the ones that are "enthusiast sites". I can see if you guys don't have time to do market research for yourselves in order to change this situation. That's fine. But then you're going to have to leave it at that- no more AMD cpu samples. And what the heck does "lol gg's" mean?

2CPU.com » News » February 2005 » The "Official Word" from AMD