2CPU.com » News » July 2004 » World software piracy losses climb to $29 billion

I'm searching the bottom of the barrel for news, people. I've wandered over to CNN's Technology Section. Were you aware of how much money was lost due to Software Piracy in 2003?

The global trade in pirated software, from versions of Microsoft Windows XP to Adobe Acrobat, hit nearly $29 billion in 2003, an industry trade body said in its annual survey on Wednesday. That value amounted to about 60 percent of all legal global desktop software sales of $51 billion, said the Business Software Alliance (BSA).

Which side of this fence do you sit on? Do you think piracy is evil and costing the legitimate consumers money due to the inherent increases in software pricing? Or do you think that Piracy doesn't really cost companies like Microsoft as much money as they let on?

jives BP6 User Posts: 2419 Joined: 2001-05-18

#30332 Posted on: 07/07/2004 07:51 PM Well it's not like there is $29 billion sitting in accounts out there that was "saved" by pirating software...so the question is where did the money go?

sAvAgE69 Unregistered

#30333 Posted on: 07/07/2004 08:20 PM Which side of this fence do you sit on? Do you think piracy is evil and costing the legitimate consumers money due to the inherent increases in software pricing? Or do you think that Piracy doesn't really cost companies like Microsoft as much money as they let on? Well If it is software that I support , I will buy it. If I do not support Software (IE Microsoft) I will not buy it meaning I will pretend it does n0t exist and not bother with it If you support the Software Company then BUY IT, if not then DON'T STEAL IT but that is a lot of Windows Copies floating around 29 Billion?

opus13 misanthrope. Posts: 1628 Joined: 2002-04-05

#30334 Posted on: 07/07/2004 08:30 PM these articles are essentially crap. the only way to figure out how much was lost is to know a. how many copies were pirated, and b. how many people would have bought it without access to a copy. you cant solve an equation with 2 unidentified variables. there is no way to know how many copies are out there, and no way to know what could have been sold. "Piracy has cost the software/movie/music industry $(whatever) this year alone". They are nonsense statements, attempting to scare the public away from the fact that we cant compute the costs because the variables are impossible to define. 2 cents.

stmok23 Registered User Posts: 798 Joined: 2002-02-02

#30335 Posted on: 07/07/2004 08:51 PM This is another BS article, design to scare the public. Just look at the RIAA and their claims in past articles...If you look at the numbers they say, it just doesn't add up! (Numbers are just pulled out of their butt.) Its like the one about MS software being surprisingly secure as Linux...But the truth is, looking at how many security advisories is no way to determine the security of an OS...Actually setting it up a system as a honeypot and let it be attack is a better indicator. Another BS article is Bill Gates claiming MS has the ability to produce security patches in 48hours...And yet, there are security issues that have not been resolved in 2 months+. If you have the capability, why not demonstrate it? (There's an example showing it takes 2 months from telling MS about and issue to MS releasing a patch for it). Put it this way, that's 29 Billion used to train future workers. Some people download illegal copies to learn how to use an app for a future career path. (Since some apps are very costly to acquire via legal means). So one can consider this as companies investing in training of potential employees. Sempron (Socket 754): 2x Abit NF8-V (nForce3 250Gb) and ASRock K8SLI-eSATA2 (ULi M1697) Dual CPU love: Supermicro P6DBE (i440BX), PIIIDRE (i840), 2x PIIIDR3 (i840), 4x ASUS P3C-D (i820), and ACorp 6A815EPD1 (i815EP) OSs?: Linux, Solaris and BSDs.

Dr. Strangelove AKA: Dr. Merkw Posts: 72 Joined: 2002-11-20

#30336 Posted on: 07/07/2004 09:15 PM Copying software is wrong!! I just wish I could afford to buy it, so I would not have to copy it ! "Gentlemen you can't fight in here this is the war room!"

AlCapone Aspiring Duallie Posts: 118 Joined: 2001-10-06

#30337 Posted on: 07/07/2004 10:12 PM translating unsold copys directly into "loss" is stupid. it's the same as saying: If a kid sits on 3D Studio max , and drawing cartoon figures, playing around, does NOT mean the kid would have bought the overpriced software... If I downloaded some heavy rendering software, or Windows Server 2003 - it would NOT mean M$ had lost a single buck..... because I would never think about buying it.... on the other hand ... is't piracy a result of greed ? M$ - selling tons of bugfixes each second year as an "new" OS ... ok..ok , it's not only bugfixes, there are new bugs as well http://www.madhacker.org

Sinizterguy Dark & Sinizter Posts: 803 Joined: 2002-10-12

#30338 Posted on: 07/07/2004 10:14 PM More than half those people who are using pirated copies would not buy the original any way. So the figures published are always going to be too high. Retired member of the 2CPU DPAD Team Proud Member of 2CPU.com Folding@Home

sAvAgE69 Unregistered

#30339 Posted on: 07/07/2004 11:50 PM Put it this way, that's 29 Billion used to train future workers. Some people download illegal copies to learn how to use an app for a future career path. (Since some apps are very costly to acquire via legal means). So one can consider this as companies investing in training of potential employees. This is why I like the Way Oracle uses their software cClick here and take your pic when you want to learn an application but dont have the fund to buy it then I think people should follow Oracles Example.

xp2600 SMP Newbie Posts: 23 Joined: 2004-07-03

#30340 Posted on: 07/08/2004 01:11 AM I support the free open source software. In my idea anyone who supports free open source software should not participate in any acts of piracy, should try to refuse buying or using non-free software, and participate in the development or support processes of some open source free software projects he/she likes, or start a new one.

scythe Quad nutty Posts: 555 Joined: 2002-09-25

#30341 Posted on: 07/08/2004 01:26 AM the way I see it... I wasn't intending to purchase the software in the first place. So they haven't exactly lost any money on me at all. - Q6600 @ 3.0ghz (333x9) - 4x1gb DDR2 800 - HD4890 - Asus Maximus Formula X38 - 150GB RaptorX - Antec P180v2 w/ 550w Real Power Pro -

lurqa Registered User Posts: 14 Joined: 2003-05-07

#30342 Posted on: 07/08/2004 02:19 AM Yep. These reports of lost revenue due to piracy are useless. There was never a situation where all copies of consumer software were legal. -and I don't think there will ever be. The reasons are as stated above, the individuals playing around with the pirated copies don't really need the software or cannot afford it anyway. Suits whining about lost phantom revenue..... sigh.

travisgrafx Step 1 = Underpants Posts: 166 Joined: 2001-09-14

#30343 Posted on: 07/08/2004 04:18 PM Just the usual PR BS and spin paranoia used by the Business Alliance to justify its existence. They probably calculated the world population against the units sold and determined that the difference MUST be pirated copies. They also do not understand that many "pirates" are more like collectors I myself believe that if you make a buck with it you should pay for the software. The software business model uses the "oops" factor to justify its sales too much. That is "Oops I bought another piece of @!#$#@ software package that is completely useless". Piracy seems to be their justification for not allowing you to return defective products. For every pirate there are two companies trying to steal your honest buck. For training and research purposes all software should be free. Of course that is a huge market no company wants to lose. The point will soon be moot once we move into a timeframe where usable familiar computer software will reach its public domain cycle and become free to the general public (IE win98, win2000) in about 5 years. I think all business software companies should host free downloads of their older versions on their page, stemming user piracy while enticing users to "upgrade" to the newer "better" versions. On the other hand the sale of pirated software does suck and should be stopped. It does hurt the businesses and the customers. "Man who live in glass house should change clothes in basement."

Beng3000 Registered User Posts: 698 Joined: 2002-01-22

#30344 Posted on: 07/09/2004 02:53 AM It is not as if Microsoft or any other software company says "We only want to make X dollars. So if all the pirates bought their copies we would charge everyone less." Also, piracy is good for software companies in some ways. It increases their market share, and it reduces demand for lower cost alternatives. A lot of people that won't pay 1000 bucks for Adobe, will pirate Adobe instead of paying 500 bucks for a llower cost alternative. I think Adobe prefers to have it this way. If your competitors are weaker, then you are stronger. Also, a lot of people start out as pirates, but once they start making some money with the software, they wind up buying it. I bet a lot of graphic designers and programmers fit this bill.

nipster NOT a WarMonger Posts: 1841 Joined: 2001-09-12

#30345 Posted on: 07/11/2004 07:29 PM these figures are complete BS company pirates x $$ of software for what reason? they could not afford the software or did not want to spend money on it either way they either would NOT have paid for it anyway and kept what they had or looked for a cheaper / free alternative either way, they didnt "lose money" because of the decison the same goes with home users...

Porkstone Registered User Posts: 215 Joined: 2001-06-27

#30346 Posted on: 07/12/2004 12:12 PM Micro$oft now have the means to make their OS's far more difficult to pirate with their activation technique. What would be the end result if people could no longer install their OS without paying for it first? They would be forced to install linux or some other freely available OS, I don't think Mr Gates would like this. As far end user OS licences go I think they should probably be free, vendors should then focus on adding value through the software they sell and the support they offer. I personally thought that MS had some balls passing XP off as a 'new' operating system, expecting W2K users to pay to upgrade to XP smacks of stiffing Supermicro Barbones Rackmount Servers for President Dial360.co.uk dualbotic.com

stmok23 Registered User Posts: 798 Joined: 2002-02-02

#30347 Posted on: 07/12/2004 04:56 PM And its the very reason why I'm learning Linux and BSD. To get away from using MS products once and for all...And MS sloppy security efforts. (Use Win2k and WinXP because the engineering apps I have are Windows-based...But now, some have Linux versions!). I'm just tired of their BS. Publically, they say they can do this and that, but MS and the whole "Windows Community" is like a huge whale...By the time it actually does something...Its usually too late. And then Homeland Security recommending not to use IE...That really takes the cake! Implementing "copy protection" measures may make them think their products are impossible to copy, but it ain't...WinXP's upcoming SP2 has already been cracked! They can implement all this BS, but its often a waste of time as its broken everytime. There are far more talented folks out there who enjoy breaking down walls that have been raised. There should be a "Slim" Educational version...No IE, no Outlook, no WMP, etc. Just give me the basic OS and let me choose what I want to do with it. Sempron (Socket 754): 2x Abit NF8-V (nForce3 250Gb) and ASRock K8SLI-eSATA2 (ULi M1697) Dual CPU love: Supermicro P6DBE (i440BX), PIIIDRE (i840), 2x PIIIDR3 (i840), 4x ASUS P3C-D (i820), and ACorp 6A815EPD1 (i815EP) OSs?: Linux, Solaris and BSDs.

nipster NOT a WarMonger Posts: 1841 Joined: 2001-09-12

#30348 Posted on: 07/13/2004 03:32 AM Originally posted by Porkstone Micro$oft now have the means to make their OS's far more difficult to pirate with their activation technique. not really because they have to have a volume license version for companies to use... companies will not (and should not) stand for any sort of "activation" nonsense. It adds time and money to projects time and money which we do not have furthermore, hackers, and pirates will be able to crack just about ANYTHING once a product is out, either a hacked version will be released SOMEWHERE on the web, or someone will post their volume licensed version and key out on the web either way, people who have the means (internet) and desire to get this software WILL the only people who suffer due to these misguided anti-piracy attempts are legitimate users... pirates will always get their warez

AlCapone Aspiring Duallie Posts: 118 Joined: 2001-10-06

#30349 Posted on: 07/13/2004 03:54 PM pirates will always get their warez but then M$ will slowly force everything to TCPA / Palladium, and even none of us want that cr*p, they alredy have made deals with major BIOS makers to infect future hardware with Palladium "support" what then ? their will own our ass. (unless - of course, majority of us, like me, never install they next, palladium infected OS - longhorn) http://www.madhacker.org

cmost Back in St. Olaf.... Posts: 416 Joined: 2002-08-13

#30350 Posted on: 07/20/2004 12:45 AM Here's my two cents... A big part of the piracy issues arrises from the high price of today's titles. I don't understand where Microsoft comes up with their pricing for Windows (and other major titles such as Office). I think a better scheme would be to charge users based on their existing version. For example, if someone purchased Windows 2000 Professional (which was released February 2000) and upgrades to Windows XP Professional (released October of 2001) then s/he should expect to pay proportionately less for the upgrade lisence then someone who is upgrading from Windows 95 (who should pay the maximum amount). The same scheme should be implemented for users of Office XP (released in 2002) who are upgrading to Office 2003 (only a year's lapse between versions - ridiculous!) Furthermore, I strongly believe that each Windows and Office license should be vaild for two machines (e.g., Workstation & laptop, or two family PC's.) To take this a step further, Microsoft could offer "Family Packs" of three or more licences to outfit the kid's PC's. A lot of piracy stems from those who need to install their one valid copy on the other machines in the family and therefore end up "pirating" the software. If Microsoft offered a little more flexibility in pricing and in use, then I believe piracy would drop considerably. Sure, there are those who will never pay for software regardless of pricing schemes, but many people are honest, but just can't afford to drop in excess of $200 per machine for the latest Windows version (which are essentially a compilation of bug-fixes and patches, with some cosmetic refreshing as well.) As for Office, only corporate users use many of the advanced features of this overly behemoth of a productivity suite. Home users do little more than type letters, resumes, or the occasional newsletter. Why can't a more simplified, affordable version of Office be made available? And NOT MS-Works either (ironically, it rarely works the way one wants it to.) More of an Office Lite. A word processor, spreadsheet, database, presentation, and page-layout suite that is fully compatible with full blown Office, but with all the corporate-centric features stripped out. like I said, just my two cents (or maybe half-dollar.) AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ 4096 MB DDR 400MHz DDR2 RAM GeForce 9400 GT w 512 MB DDR2 Primary OS: Parsix GNU/Linux (built from Debian Testing) Compiz-Fusion Git Other OS: Windows Server 2003 SP2 (as workstation); Windows Fundamentals for Legacy PCs; Windows XP Pro. SP3 - via VirtualBox

2CPU.com » News » July 2004 » World software piracy losses climb to $29 billion